Season 1 Episode 3 - Interview with Tessa Hill and Eric Simons authors of At Every Depth

For this conversation, I am joined by Tessa Hill, a UC Davis professor, and Eric Simons, a writer and educator, to discuss their co-authored book, At Every Depth, that intertwines indigenous knowledge with Western science to highlight the urgency of ocean conservation amidst climate change. The book emerges from a collaborative writing process, structured to reflect varying depths of ocean familiarity, aiming to bridge the disconnect many feel towards ocean issues. 

At Every Depth emphasizes the interconnectedness of marine ecosystems through relatable human stories, making complex changes in ocean environments more accessible and tangible. Additionally, the authors spotlight the vital role of indigenous perspectives in understanding these ecosystems, advocating for a richer dialogue around ocean conservation. Inspired by pioneers like Rachel Carson and the work of historical figures such as Marie Tharp, the authors assert that it’s not too late to protect the ocean, urging communities to unite in conservation efforts and share knowledge for a sustainable future. More resources and event updates can be found at their website, ateverydepth.com.

Summary

Full Transcript Here

Notes
Introduction to "At Every Depth" (00:00 - 10:32)

• The book "At Every Depth" blends indigenous knowledge with Western science to build connection to oceans
• Central theme: "The ocean cannot tell its own story, so the story we tell about it depends on the people who get to speak"
• The book aims to help people feel connected to the ocean and inspire protection
• Book conception began around 2013-2015 during dramatic ocean changes (marine heat wave "the Blob") off California coast
• Authors wanted to "pull back the blue curtain" to show people the scale of environmental change in oceans

Co-Writing Process and Book Structure (10:32 - 20:26)

• Book written as Google Doc collaboration where authors merged into "a single writing human"
• Co-writing provided mutual support—when one author felt discouraged, the other could cheerlead
• Authors described the book as "caretaking of other people's stories" rather than their own
• Book structured from shallow to deep ocean, nearshore to offshore
• Structure follows readers' familiarity—coastlines (most familiar) to polar/deep oceans (least known)
• Depth-based organization inspired by Ed Ricketts' "Between Pacific Tides" field guide
• Authors started with magazine article to experiment with their collaborative writing process

Communicating Ocean Change (20:27 - 29:41)

• Book demonstrates how various knowledge systems can work together without conflict
• Chapters blend science topics with human stories to make ocean changes understandable
• People understand climate change on land but struggle to perceive similar changes in ocean
• Authors highlight "people who know this place extremely well" to make invisible ocean changes visible
• Example: California kelp ecosystem shows interconnected nature of ocean systems
• Marine heat waves, sea urchin proliferation, loss of sea otters all interconnected in kelp forest decline
• Authors emphasize importance of considering "three or four dominoes down" in ocean systems

Indigenous Knowledge and Understanding (29:41 - 39:36)

• Indigenous peoples often consider seas part of their country, not separate (unlike Western maps)
• Profile of Adam Dick (Indigenous leader) described as a "time capsule" of ocean knowledge
• Dick was trained in traditional knowledge while being hidden from residential schools
• Story reveals contrast between Western "discovery" and Indigenous peoples who never "lost" knowledge
• Authors highlight importance of listening and learning across knowledge systems
• Focus on partnerships and unlikely collaborations in ocean conservation
• Emphasis on asking the right questions and having the right conversations across cultures

Scientific Figures and Book's Purpose (39:36 - 50:06)

• Profile of Marie Tharp, cartographer who mapped seafloor mountain ranges in 1950s
• Tharp's work was crucial to plate tectonics theory despite barriers women faced in science
• Book inspired by Rachel Carson who used storytelling to connect people to environment
• Authors hope book will help readers feel closer to the ocean through others' stories
• Key message: "It's not too late for the ocean. In fact, it's just in time"
• Authors believe in building communities and sharing understanding as where conservation power lies
• Website available at ateverydepth.com for updates and events